James Thompson Warrior Nun Fandom Space, February 12th, 2023 - English Transcription
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Transcription in English
James Thompson 0:03: Alright, it looks like we've got everyone I think that we have scheduled to speak today. Can everybody hear me? Alright? Yep, yep. Outstanding. Well, guys, my idea for this is to have more of a group discussion, maybe going over some of the questions I've sent out to all of you, and just really have a chance to highlight all of the wonderful work that you guys have been doing. So everybody can hear how it came about, how you met, and maybe what you want to share about yourselves personally. Those are the types of things that really interest me. I know when I found out about all the stuff that you were doing, I wanted to put this space together. I'm so thankful that you're here. Hopefully, we might have a couple of surprise visits. I know that David Hayter was going to try to be here today, but he couldn't. But he wants to do a space later this week. Hopefully, we'll be able to get that done because he wants to say thanks to all of you as well. So, anyway, let's see if everybody's ready, we'll get this ball rolling. What do you guys say?"
Ashley 1:18: Sounds good.
James Thompson 1:23: Thumbs up and everything there. Since I know Ashley and Kate probably the best out of everybody, just because I've dealt with them with the postcards, I'll probably go ahead and start with them. And I'm actually going to pick on you, Ashley, and ask you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Ashley 1:50: Alright, um, well, my name is Ashley. I joined "The Order" pretty early on when it started to come together to work with outreach. So, I help Kate. We both send out a lot of emails to different people, journalists, celebrities, network executives, essentially just giving them information about the show. We also worked with James as he said with the postcard campaign, which you've probably seen if you're here. That's been really cool too, it's been exciting seeing people actually using them and seeing them posted all over Twitter. As for me, I used to work in a big medical group business for a while, but I hated it, so I quit and went back to school. I'm going to school for social work with an emphasis in LGBT religious trauma and representation. So this is kind of in my wheelhouse of what I really enjoy doing. Yeah, that's probably about it for me.
James Thompson 3:13: That's amazing. Actually, I find it interesting the schoolwork that you're wanting to go into and the way it aligns with several of the people who follow this show. I know I've seen quite a few discussions on here about people and their connection to the show because of religion, trauma, etc. So, I find that interesting that that's your background and you're wanting to get involved in this. But you've been doing a phenomenal job, I'm a huge fan of yours. So thank you very much. Thank you, Kate, how about you next? You're in New Zealand, right?
Kate 4:03: It's 5am.
James Thompson 4:05: Oh, my God, Kate, I'm so sorry.
Kate: Okay, yeah, like Ashley said, I do outreach stuff for "The Order." I got started not as early on as Ashley, but probably a couple of weeks in. I had-- I honestly wasn't that active on Twitter before, which I feel like a lot of us probably were in that situation. But yeah, so I decided to make a second Twitter account after the cancellation, just for Warrior Nun, and started tweeting and stuff, and then was following along with spaces and then reached out to Kay Inari after one and was just like, "Hey, I can help with, you know, I'm keen to help with some outreach stuff." And then just sort of jumped into it with Ashley, and like Ashley said, we send a ton of emails out. We also do... Whoo, you know, the postcards with you? And I'm trying to think of other stuff. But yeah, I guess what I do outside of this is I'm finishing up my PhD in neuroscience. So a little bit different than all of this, but yeah, that's me, I guess.
James Thompson: I did not know I had a big old speech there that I just gave and then realized. Thank you for letting me know that. Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it. You have been phenomenal and looking forward to working with you guys a whole lot more. Chris, you're next in line on my page. So I'd love to hear from you about your background and all the wonderful work you've been doing for us, as far as analytics.
Christopher Penn: Sure. So I'm Chris, I am the co-founder and chief data scientist at Trust Insights.ai. We are a management and marketing consulting firm. I got roped into this by a mutual friend Siwa, who is in the whole Twitch side of things. And it started with a conversation on a Saturday morning, someone asking, "Hey, do you know anything about Twitter data and how to process it?" and one thing led to another, and now apparently, I am running part of the website. I am running the daily email newsletter, doing all the data processing, machine learning, etc., behind the movement as a whole. Very different background, I think, than some of the other folks here.
James Thompson: Your work has been incredibly important to us. Chris, you have given us insight into why this fandom is such a phenomenon as far as using actual data and science to back up those claims. I mean, we all understand that the fandom is wonderful. But you've been actually able to go, "Oh, no, look, you guys are wonderful. And this is why." And that's been an amazing thing. Can you tell us a little bit about that in terms of the data insights themselves?
Christopher Penn: Well, first, we have a really good team. No one person is doing this alone. Within "The Order," the data teams like six or seven people who have varying backgrounds. The hardest part of doing any of this work for any kind of movement is understanding what data you have, what you have access to. And we have some phenomenal sleuths on Team Robin and Laura and many others who are able to ferret out information. Coco and the hamster squad ferret out information about where different bits of data live and then assemble mental models. The idea behind all this stuff is to look at what data do you have? What is the outcome that you are trying to prove or disprove? And then putting all the pieces together. We obviously have social media data. But then, as time went on, we started asking ourselves questions like, well, what information does Netflix see? What information is out there like IMDb that is an impartial third party that can be quantitatively linked to an outcome of some kind? And then just starting to assemble all the different pieces— press coverage, podcasts, interviews, YouTube data, all that's out there. It's a question of can you assemble it into a coherent story. That's what the team does as a whole: put together coherent stories about not just the movement, but also raising valid questions about what the decision-making process is, for example, at Netflix. There was a great article from 2018 to 2019 from then-chief content officer and now co-CEO Ted Sarandos, who outright admitted, "Oh, we get 70% of the time, we just go with gut instinct and 30% of the time we use data to back up the opinions we already have." For folks who understand data analytics, that's not how that works. That's actually the opposite of what you should be doing. So, it's things like that which tell us, "Okay, clearly, the folks who are steering the ship at the good ship Netflix, perhaps don't use data in the way that they could be using it to benefit themselves." And so, part of our remit is to educate everyone that the data is contrary to the narrative, you know, the "we never canceled a successful show" narrative. Actually, we did. And also, to assemble in a way that demonstrates to say other streaming companies or other production houses that there's a there there when it comes to this franchise and what you could do with it.
James Thompson: Well, Chris, you have been amazing. I really enjoyed your video when you explained the basics of some of this, and it was very eye-opening for me as somebody who's not super familiar with analytics and data. So, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Kay, I think you're next in line here. I'd like to hear from you about what you do, who you are, etc.
Kay: Hi, I'm Kay. So, I think the main thing is that Ari and I founded "The Order". It was one of our initial ideas when we were brainstorming ways to save the show. We sent out some tweets to see if there were any people who wanted to volunteer their time. Then we created "The Order" Discord server, and all these amazing people came together and really created "The Order". So, in essence, I feel like more of a background character. We oversee and run things, and coordinate, but mostly it's people like Ashley, Sarah, Adrian, Kelsey, and Chris who are the mind behind everything. I also run some updates and spaces on Twitter and handle that kind of stuff, but mostly I'd like to extend my gratitude towards the people here. I have no background in most of the things occurring in "The Order" server. I'm an astrophysics student, and I'll do my master's next year in astrophysics. I have no experience in this, but I've gained a lot just from working, listening, and organizing these things.
James Thompson: Yeah, okay, where are you from? Are you currently living in London?
Kay: Yes, I've lived here for ten years of my life. Before that, I was living in Ireland.
James Thompson: Well, thank you so much for being here. You and Ari have done an amazing job of putting together one hell of a team, and the way this kind of organically came together, at least my understanding of it, has been really amazing. Now, Ari, please feel free to jump into this because you and Kay both did this. How did that original concept come about?
Ari: First of all, I want to apologize if I sound like I'm speaking through a cardboard tube; I have allergies that are really acting up. Kay and I originally met each other through this watch party group chat that I started, and she was handling the British timezone, and I was working on the American timezone with a few others. Shoutout to Cap and WeHo; I'm not sure if they're here right now. Oh, yeah, Bee is here, hi. But yeah, we met there, and when the show was canceled, my first instinct was that I just decided I need to make sure that the community is okay. I need to make sure the community knows that they're not isolated, their feelings are not individual cases, we're all feeling this. So I immediately made a space; I was getting ready for work, so I was pretty sad and just trying to manage that. But it was only an hour-long space, and when I had to go in for work, Kay took over, and then that's when the whole super long but also super memorable space where Kitty kind of jumped in with Jessica and I think Laura, Dominique, and a bunch of other people jumped in. And that's kind of that was that space was the catalyst for all of this. And then at that point, she and I realized that that gave us all the eyeballs so everyone was looking at us. And so we decided together that we wanted to do something more than just provide entertainment. We wanted to provide some direction, so Kay and I started brainstorming ideas and eventually decided to call on some professionals who float around in the Fandom or just fans who are willing to help us out. And eventually, through me and Kay, mostly Kay because Kay has a broader reach than me, we put together "The Order" server. I made it; it's all constructed by me. But we basically, that's basically what it started. And we just felt the responsibility of kind of looking after the Fandom fell on us. But instead of shoving that away, we kind of just accepted that and decided that this is something that we wanted to do together. And so we did, and now, over a month later, almost closing it on two months later, if not that, since the cancellation, we've made so much progress. I can only imagine that we have a lot more to achieve.
James Thompson: You guys have done phenomenal work. I think it was Ashley and Kate that kind of told me a little bit about the beginnings of how this started. And that there was this space, which is what I think you were just talking about, where literally thousands and thousands of people kind of came together after the cancellation. Is that the same space that you were just talking about?
Ari: Yeah, the one that peaked at like 6,000 people, and then my phone shut off. Yeah.
James Thompson 16:41: One of the interesting things I heard in discussing it today and with other discussions is the way people have fallen into doing this. From my own experience, I made a post and then got thousands of likes on it. And I'm like, okay. Then I made another post, and it kind of kept rolling and falling into it. Then it's getting more and more involved where I look around and I'm like, wait a minute, all I'm doing is Warrior Nun. So it sounds like that's kind of what's happened to most of us who are still fans.
Ari 17:28: Yeah, I know all of us are fans still; otherwise, we wouldn't be doing this. But yeah, it was something we fell into and just took the reins on. I guess you could say it wasn't planned, but I'm kind of glad that cards fell the way they did because I wouldn't trade any of this for any other scenario, honestly.
James Thompson 17:52: Well, I think that what you guys have done is incredible. For this kind of organizational structure to organically combine and be created has just been an amazing thing to watch, particularly with the accomplishments. Speaking of the accomplishments, the billboards, and I think Sarah, you're up next. I would really like to hear from you and kind of where you're at, where you're from, and kind of how you got involved and what you've been doing with the Fandom.
Sarah 18:31: Okay, yeah. So my name is Sarah. Previously, I don't have any experience as far as being in any kind of fandom. This is all new and a first for me. Just like Kate, I also just made this profile for Warrior Nun, like my real one has like four followers. I mostly just use Twitter for work until I saw that the show was canceled. Previously, I worked in healthcare in trauma and labor and delivery, doing surgeries and stuff. And now I'm in insurance. But I created this account when I saw that people had a lot of ideas, and I was just like, everybody's talking about it, let's actually do it because I had some time. And so I created the GoFundMe, and Kelsey and I have been speaking to agencies, media managers, all sorts of people to get information and make sure that we are making the correct decisions and investments. And so nothing that we do is being done blindly. Eventually, we got enough funds to get that billboard outside of Netflix, and that was awesome. Then we just got the one in New York. There are lots of other plans still in the works. But if you have any specific questions-
James Thompson 19:52: I think that's, I mean, what were the big highlights. I wanted to start off with. The billboard, particularly outside of Netflix headquarters, is the ultimate trolling situation. It was just such an amazing thing. And the fact that now, as we saw yesterday, Kristina and Simon both have been there, David Hayter has been there, lots of the cast and crew are making that same pilgrimage as well. And of course, there was a large pilgrimage last weekend. The work that you guys did and be able to see those results, that's got to be really satisfying for you, I would imagine.
Sarah 20:31: Yeah, it's been very cool to see the reactions and everything. And you know, I've had David and a few cast members reach out to me just to say thank you. It's great to see how much the cast is still involved in how much they actually love everybody on their show. The reactions are just so fulfilling, and I love that.
James Thompson 20:54: Well, next up, we have Pietra. Hi, how are you?
Pietra 21:18: Yeah, so sorry for the freakout this week.
James Thompson 21:22: That's fine. We loved it.
Pietra 21:26: So what happened was I was on Twitter, and I think like some people here, I have two accounts. So this account was mostly used for Raptors content. And out of nowhere, I started commenting on Watchtowers for the second and third week. And then when the cancellation hit, I just went into Chaos Control, I think. And the newsletter came as my way of putting the information together because I, for one, am a very disorganized person. So if I don't have the information together, I'm going to lose everything. I don't know where to start looking. So this idea came to me, and Adrian was so nice and keen to help. She actually sees the reason why we get anything done, particularly the interviews. So I guess this is it. I am not from Canada, which is a misconception. But let's just leave it at that.
James Thompson 22:27: Everybody speaking today, hopefully, you'll have an opportunity to let us know where you live if you want to. I see that William Miller has joined us, and I'm inviting William to speak. I know that William would probably like a chance to say thank you to everybody. And so hopefully, I did that right.
Ari 23:05: And let's see if it worked. We may have silence.
James Thompson 23:10: If we can get him, there he goes. All right. William, how are you today? If you're speaking, you are on mute.
Ari 23:23: William, you're muted.
William Miller 23:24: Sorry, can you hear me now? Okay, sorry. I didn't know if I was going to be able to make it today because I'm at my nephew's baptism. So it's been a bit of a busy day. Being recognized by the processional wasn't a plus for my nephew.
James Thompson 23:54: Well, I had extended invitations to a bunch of you, and I was hoping some of you would have a chance to come in here so you could give your own personal thanks. You've already done that numerous times on your pages. But if you want to take the floor and talk to them or anything, William, please do. And thank you so much for showing up. We really appreciate this.
William Miller 24:14: Thanks for the invitation. James told me about it several days ago, and even though I knew I was going to be busy today, I was hoping I could find a few minutes to join and show appreciation. I know Simon made the pilgrimage to the billboard in LA, and Christina and Dave are unfortunately not here, but we're super grateful. It's beyond words what the fandom is doing. As I've said many times, whether or not things get picked up or saved by another network is out of anyone's hands. But what is true is that if you don't acknowledge the unfairness of something you find unfair, or you don't fight for something you believe in, nothing will happen. So you can only do what you can do. And up to today, what has been done has been far bigger than anything else in my recollection. It's humbling as somebody who spent four years invested in a show to see it cast aside like this, but we're all aware that this is business, and the numbers have to add up. You want it to be successful for the right reasons.
When you see how much the show means to so many people, you do question what has gone wrong. But if it can continue, make it do so. You guys are proving it's worth it to so many people out there. Keep with the positive. For many people, the show has given a space for common thought and a place where people with similar interests, feelings, and sense of love can come together in a safe space. You've spoken to each other, made acquaintances, made friends. No matter what happens to the show, that's a win-win. It's way more than you'd ever get just by watching a show without talking to anyone about it. Not to say that this won't move ahead. I think anybody would be crazy not to listen to what's happening. As a fan of the show, it's important for me to be part of this and acknowledge it. I wake up every morning and look for something inspiring to write to you guys. It doesn't take much for me to be part of this fight and give hope to those who invested so much time in this. I love being part of something like this. Sorry for digressing and speaking too much.
James Thompson 29:05: No, not at all, William. We--I know all of us are encouraged when we get to see tweets from you, from Simon, from Kristina, from Alba. We appreciate those because it does encourage all of us. I would think also from the other side, that for you as artists, seeing this kind of love from a fandom and seeing that you've had this kind of effect on so many people, it's got to be really a great affirmation for you as an artist and for your art.
William Miller 29:35: Well, not so much, because I just think I'm just another cog in the machine that somebody has put into motion. I helped tell a story. Whether I did it properly or not is beyond the fact that the story touches people in the way it has or not. You know, I can only hope that I did my job properly. I don't know. So when something like this becomes as big as it has with the fandom, it takes on its own legs. So, you know, I hope I did a good job, but the story isn't told properly unless everybody involved in it. And I think Simon was clever enough. Simon's one of the best showrunners I've worked with. And one of the good things he does is he knows how to delegate, which is what a good showrunner has to do. And he chose the right people for everything in this show. And when you choose the right people for everything--I mean, both in front and behind the camera, like costume designers, set designers, production designers, just the catering, extras, specialists, and then obviously, DPs, actors, cameramen--that's when a show actually works. And when it clicks together perfectly, it is very moving to see that something actually works in this way, that it touches people in the way that the story we were helping tell actually got through to people the right way. Because it isn't very often that it happens that you get a fandom as strong as this has happened to me. I only joined "The 100" on its fifth season. But when I did join "The 100," I wasn't aware of what I was getting into when it came to the fandom. There were people that show touched in so many different ways. And it was a fandom that was nothing that I had ever come in touch with before, but I'd never been part of something that would create something like that from moment zero. You know, I was in "Warrior Nun" on the first season. I came into the second season. So to be part of something like that from the beginning is completely different from joining in on season five. So it's been magic, you know, it's a trip. And well, I can...
James Thompson 32:05: I can definitely tell you that. We all love your character. I mean, you know, "Praise Adriel" has been trending. And we are looking forward to seeing season three and seeing them bring you back in some way.
William Miller 32:25: Hold on, because there are a couple of wacky theories. But I'm not going to be the one to speak about it; that has to be David Hayter. But we did speak about some crazy options, whether or not they will go through, but one of them is seriously hilarious, and the other one is pretty cool too. These are all theories for when season three happens because I am committed to say that it will.
James Thompson 33:00: Awesome! We'd love to hear that. William, thank you so much for coming in today. I know that you're busy, and please feel free to stay, but I also don't want to take up your time.
William Miller 33:16: I'm going to get back to my newborn nephew, who just became part of the religion that I've been slagging off with. You know, it is what it is, but he's beautiful. He's a beautiful baby boy, his name is Tristan, and I'm over the moon because he's the first kid in our family. He's the first baby.
James Thompson 33:45: Congratulations to Tristan and to you, William. Thank you so much for stopping in, and please enjoy the rest of your day.
William Miller 33:52: Thank you, James, for organizing this, and to all of you who are here listening, and to all of you who have been working on this for so long and so hard. I love you all. I think you're all amazing. I have no words. I'm just an actor, but you've made me part of something so much bigger. And I'm just another fan when I come on here. And I am a fan of you guys.
James Thompson 34:15: Seriously.
William Miller 34:17: It's humbling. I always say but it's the truth. So much love to all of you. And James, thank you so much. I realize what kind of an extremely busy man you must be, and for you to do something like this and to host this and entertain us in the way you're doing is incredible. So, thank you very much.
James Thompson 34:44: Well, thank you, William very much. I appreciate it. You have a great day.
William Miller 34:48: You too. Take care.
James Thompson 34:50: Love you all. Bye, William. All right, so now I'm a little freaked out. That was awesome. I've got to get myself back on track here. And let's see, we were talking to Pietra. So, Adrienne, you're next up on my list. Please join into the conversation.
Adrienne 35:19: I can't compete with William Miller, just to let you know. but he did give me the courage that I can actually start getting cast interviews because he was, Dean was the first, but he was totally open to do it.
James Thompson 35:38: You've done such a phenomenal job on that, Adrienne. I mean, you have gotten just some really phenomenal interviews. The one with Tristan was just incredible. William is fantastic. I mean, how are you getting those and convincing them to not just give you an interview, but to open up so much?
Adrienne 35:59: Dumb luck? It's really this cast. It, they are taking the time, I just have reached out. Seriously, it's the cast and crew.
James Thompson 36:13: Well, tell us a little bit about yourself, Adrienne, and how you got involved in all of this.
Adrienne 36:17: So I did not create a fake Twitter account. I didn't know that I get involved with this. But then when there was no promotion on Warrior Nun, I just was like, 'Okay, I've gotta help.' And then I started just evolved. I started doing like these generic, like fake or not fake, but like, as a news reporter type thing, reporting on KTY, why she's having issues with technology. Just funny things to keep spirits up. But my real love was behind the scenes. And I've been collecting behind-the-scenes information. And so when the newsletter idea was thrown out, I immediately jumped on board. And it was the 26th that she threw out the idea. The 27th, the first one was published then it evolved.
Adrienne 37:49: She's organized with putting the whole newsletter together. I organize all of the randomness involved with it.
James Thompson 37:56: You organize the chaos.
Adrienne 37:59: Yes!
James Thompson 38:01: Where do you guys see the newsletter going from here?
Adrienne 38:10: Umm, bigger
James Thompson 38:11: Weird question. So--
Adrienne 38:12: Yeah, um. I'm not going to make the announcement. You, you do it.
Pietra: 38:18 Actually, if I might. Actually, the newsletter, the goals to continue to present the information to the Fandom. Now we have two different sections. The first one is putting the fans front and center. So we are doing interviews with a couple of people. And usually just three questions, but we're doing these interviews and very soon, we're going to have one very, very special interview. They kind of made me freak out a little last week. I thought I wouldn't make it, but we are putting together an edition with Sylvia.
James Thompson 39:00: Awesome!
Pietra 39:03: It's wild. I don't even know how I survived. For those of you that know me, I am obsessed with Mother Superion and Camilla. So I always joked with Adrienne that if she got an interview with either one of them, Sylvia or Olivia, she should ease me into this. And it wasn't enough. She eased me for a day, and I almost died.
James Thompson 39:26: Oh my goodness. Mother Superion, is why I got involved in the Fandom as far as that's who I initially started tweeting about because I just love her character. That is great. I can't wait to read that, and do you think that will come out next week?
Pietra: 39:44 Maybe not because, like I said, I was freaking out and couldn't work the questions, but it should be out on the week of the 20th.
James Thompson: 40:00 Outstanding. Wow, that is incredible.
Adrienne: 40:03 So normally I'm the one that does the questions, and I get in trouble because I always submit too many questions. And now, the role has changed.
James Thompson: 40:15 Now they're wanting more questions, or do they?
Adrienne: 40:21 No, she, if I got Olivia or Sylvia, it was all her. And so now she's had the trouble of coming up with just because we have a limit, a 12 question limit with Sylvia because she's busy.
James Thompson: 40:40 She is. That'd be really interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing that. So thank you guys for letting us know that this more a little tea here today in the space.
Adrienne: Here's a little bit more. We actually did since I asked so many questions, we kind of had to go to do video interviews. And the stunt crew joined us last week, with a couple of fans. And so in the next couple of days, part one will be coming out. And it was absolutely phenomenal to talk to them. They are amazing.
James Thompson: 41:27 I've seen some of the videos with some of the stunt crew, and I would love to have a whole hour-long special on the way they put these things together, with, you know, they've got the room with the boxes and doing everything that they're doing. To me, that would be an incredibly interesting behind-the-scenes thing to get a look at. So you guys are extremely lucky that you're getting to do that. I'm pretty jealous.
Adrienne: 41:58 No, me too. And I’m only doing the video because I want to know. I'm the behind-the-scenes person, not in front of the camera.
James Thompson: Well, that is great. That's wonderful. I think what I'm going to do now is move on to Kelsey, because I want to make sure we get her introduced, because I know Kelsey has had a big role in all of this. Kelsey, how are you doing today?
Kelsey: I'm good. How are you?
James Thompson: Wonderful. Doing good, trying to make it through this and make sure we get to everybody. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your role and how you got involved.
Kelsey: Sure. So, exactly like Adrian, I did not make a side Twitter or fake Twitter or anything. This has been my account since I think 2009. I was on Twitter earlier this year because of another show that got canceled, and I was kind of part of that campaign to try to fight for it. Much, much, much smaller audience. But then, you know, when I found out about Warrior Nun, I messaged Kay, because I had been joining the spaces, and I saw the Fandom kind of grow monumentally really fast. I had never seen that kind of interaction before. So I reached out to Kay because I noticed that a lot of people were kind of flocking to her, and I basically said, 'Hey, you know, you're kind of going, it looks like you're going to be the voice of the Fandom.' And it just kind of grew from there. And I think maybe a week or two later, she messaged me and basically said, 'You know, we have this server, and you have some experience with this. Would you like to hop on?' I was like, 'Yeah, of course.' And honestly, my initial goal was like, 'I'll just kind of help, I'll be in the background. You know, I won't be super involved because, you know.' And then all of a sudden, it's around Christmas time, I'm talking to Sarah. We start working together. I had prior contacts I'd worked with before, outfront media, Clear Channel, etc. Different billboard companies, and I've done marketing before in the past. Now, my most recent experience is actually primarily healthcare-related. I was a CNA for a little while, then I did patient advocacy with their medical billing to try, I'm the person who fought the insurance companies. Yup. And now I'm actually working in finance outside of the healthcare field. So it's a little different. But we have an incredible team. I really got to shout out to Lucy, who is our graphic designer. She did the designs with the artists for like the billboards. She does all the designs for our graphs. Basically, anything you need, Lucy is just this gem of artistic ability. But everybody else, oh my, yeah, he's just incredible.
James Thompson: And I still have her original mock-up for the postcards on my computer as my background. The stuff she does is so phenomenal.
Kelsey 45:43: I know. I know. And, I mean, you know, and everybody else in 'The Order' are just incredible people. I don't think I've ever been part of a space where there was so much talent and passion, but also so much humor and personality. We all kind of ground each other when necessary. So, when we continuously build everything up, and you know, we're pushing for more, I know people start to feel burnt out. I totally get it. And you know, people have questions. So, we are, you know, trying to be as transparent as we can. Transparency is key. We actually have an update space at 3 PM EST this afternoon. So, everyone, definitely check that out as well. And for you, James, I actually have a bit of a surprise. We asked around and put something together and were able to raise $600 to donate to a cancer organization of your choice.
James Thompson 46:55: Oh, wow, caught me off guard there. Excuse me guys. Sorry, I got a little bit emotional. What I'd like you to donate it to, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. The Rocky Mountain Cancer Center specializes in neuroendocrine tumors, which is what I have. They do a lot of work. Dr. Eric Liu was there and does some amazing work. I'll have to get the information for you. I don't have it off the top of my head, obviously. But, oh my god, you guys, thank you so much. You guys got me on that?
Kelsey 47:49: No, no. I mean, everyone pitched in. I'm telling you, it's just people. At the end of the day, I feel like this fandom is very much like, let's take care of each other. And that's our end goal anyway, you know, to take care of each other and get the show back because we all deserve it. But real life problems exist, and we want to help those too. So, that's our goal. I just wanted to let you know about that.
James Thompson 48:20: Wow, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I don't even know what to say. That is above and beyond, guys. Thank you so much. You know, talking about the transparency, there was a space a month ago when people were raising questions about the billboards, etc. I got on and asked questions because as an attorney, that was what some of the things I got concerned about. I felt like, okay, we got a lot of people online, doing fundraising, and people don't really know things. And I think it was you that really had to look, this is what we're doing, and you were able to lay it out. It really set my mind at ease, and that's when I got involved in helping with fundraising because I felt safe to do so. So, you guys, the work that you're doing is so incredible. Kelsey, or anybody else that wants to jump in on this, when did you guys realize that okay, this organization 'The Order' had occurred, and that, oh my god, we have something so special here? When do you guys think that really started to sink in with you guys?
Kelsey 49:45: I mean, for me personally, it was when I joined the Kspace and all of a sudden Katie Why jumped in, and there were 6000 people on Twitter, and it was starting to break, there was chaos. It was just this giant thing. And I was like, 'Oh, this is big.' And also, just to credit Sarah, because sometimes my brain is like a jumbled mess, or I'll get really worked up about something, and she will ground me and be like, 'Okay, let's talk about this.' So she's the more sensible one, I'm more of the 'let's get things done right now' type. And she is more like, 'let's take it down a notch and explain it a little clearer.'
James Thompson 50:41: It's always good to have someone like that. You know, when I did political campaigns, I had some people like that who were very much, 'Okay, that's a great idea, Jim. Let's talk about how we get to that idea.' I sent out some questions to all of you, just to go over some things we could talk about. I think we've gone over a lot of how 'The Order' came about, how it was organized. Did any of you know each other before all of this?
Kelsey 51:27: I personally did not know anyone at all. I've met all these people on Twitter, and a few of them, I actually met in California last weekend.
James Thompson 51:38: I was so jealous of that, by the way. On one hand, I'm very happy that there's this great gathering pilgrimage of people there, and on the other hand, oh my God, I wish I could be there. I really wanted to, I really want to see that sign. But did anybody else know anyone? Chris, you had said that you got drug into it. Is there anybody else?
Christopher Penn 52:04: No, I mean, this is a group of total strangers to me. This is a very different audience of people and that's what makes it interesting. You get a chance to see, I came into it as a very much outsider from almost every aspect of background, etc. When you first step into one of the Discord servers, you realize just how organized and self-organized the group is. There are different channels for legal, finance, data analytics, art and design, media pitching, etc. Most companies would be lucky to function like this at all. There are organizational silos within every company that are problematic at best. And so, seeing that, the thing that I find very interesting about 'The Order' as a whole, and the fandom, but especially the group 'The Order,' is that it's a totally different system of governance that is wildly at odds with things that I grew up with and the things I see in regular business. We all know regular business does not tend to function particularly well. The system of governance is by committee in the best possible way, sort of a consensus-based group, and that's highly unusual, particularly for a group of 50-odd people having a consensus-based organization. It shouldn't function, but it does, mostly because the team as a whole has chosen very carefully and well about the people involved in this smaller group as part of the larger fandom. There's almost no egos, and no one is in it for themselves first. That's the key to the group as a whole functioning well, people are putting the communal aspect above the individual aspect, which is highly unusual, and we know this from just looking at the headlines in the news. I think that's just so remarkable.
James Thompson 54:00: I can't agree more, Chris. I mean, I know that in having conversations with Ashley and Kate, to me, that was such a huge story, part of this, what you have all accomplished and the way you have come together so organically to function and like you said, with a marketing department, legal department, and have this spontaneous organization that is far better than, as you said, most companies I've helped set up. And what has happened within this to me seems like a case study in organization. It just really has been that phenomenal. Has anybody else looked at this and stepped back and went, 'Whoa, I can't believe what we're doing and how special this is?' I'd love to hear some more thoughts from some of you.
Ashley 55:22: I can go, I definitely feel like I wake up and think about this on a daily basis. That's one of the reasons I'm going to school for what I'm studying. A lot of people got really into the 100 and the flexural storyline, and that's when "Bury Your Gaze" started. I remember social media was popular then and is getting even more popular. There was an outcry from the community over that show, especially because it had been consistent and people were fighting for better representation on screen. I'm proud to be a part of this movement, and seeing the talent and passion of my friends and coworkers gives me a lot of hope. This has saved me in many ways and I feel blessed to have these people in my life. This is more organized than any business I've worked for, which is a little depressing but also amazing because people are passionate about it. It started with the goal of protecting the fandom and giving people a space to be themselves, which many people have never had.
Kelsey 58:22: I also wanted to follow up, because I was yelled at before. When you asked if I knew anyone, I didn't want to "dox" us, but Ashley and I are actually cousins.
James Thompson 58:37: That's interesting. Well, I'm really glad that you guys are cousins and came together. It sounds like Sarah, Kay, Ari, and Kelsey were the original organizers, is that right?
Kelsey 59:09: I think for "The Order," Kayy and Ari were the first two, and then everyone else came together. There are other Discord servers and people doing their own outreach. I want to give a shoutout to someone named Boop who comes up with hilarious phrases like "Lettuce Save Warrior Nun." At the end of the day, we have "The Order" and other people have their own servers, and it's just everyone coming together, freaking out, branching out, bringing in this organic audience, and spreading the word. We're still finding people who didn't know it was canceled, and everybody is just incredible.
James Thompson 1:00:47: I've seen many posts from people who are new fans, and I love that the fandom is welcoming to all of them and enveloping them into the fold. Where do you all see this going? Of course, we want Warrior Nun to be renewed, but even if it's not, where do you see this organization and fandom moving? What do you think the next level or step is? Anyone can feel free to jump in.
Kayy 1:01:32: I'm going to jump in real quick. The ultimate goal is to save our show and get as many seasons of Warrior Nun as possible. But even if we don't get the renewal, I think we've created a community and a framework for future shows to follow, especially sapphic shows. This is one of the most organized campaigns we've ever seen, and it's all because of the people involved. We've created a drive and a framework for the future that matters a lot, and the impact of the community we've created is immeasurable.
James Thompson 1:03:04: I think that brings up a great point. The impact has been greater than just the show. It's brought awareness to the lack of sapphic representation in television shows and the fact that these shows don't tend to last long. What you guys are doing is bringing awareness to a very important issue and working towards equality.
Kayy 1:03:47: Definitely. We've seen articles from Forbes, The New York Times, and Time, which is insane. It's bringing publicity not just to Warrior Nun, but to show cancellations in general. It's creating industry pressure that we've always wanted, and every day we see tens of articles coming out. It's putting huge pressure on Netflix and it's crazy that they're ignoring it. I do think that the recent statement they made may have been a nod to the outrage, but you would think they would run those statements by someone first.
Kayy 1:04:55: "But you know, I don't think Netflix runs their decisions by anyone. Clearly, they'll be making money off of them if they did. That was a huge blow to us because it was. A lot of reasons there was a fall is if they don't promote a show, what are they going to expect? It's dismissive because shows are more than just numbers at the end of the day. Shows like Warrior Nun meant more to us than just audience views. It was representation and beyond that, it was just a really good show. It's dismissive to reduce shows to just numbers and profit."
James Thompson 1:05:44: "I don't think it's a sustainable model. If people are afraid to get invested in shows, they'll stop watching your shows. Sooner or later, they'll be like, 'I don't want the emotional drain of losing a show I care about. I'm not even going to get invested now because I'm worried you won't put in the effort to continue the show.' It seems like an unsustainable business model that needs to be modified."
Kayy 1:06:20: "Definitely. The streaming age where you get one season with eight episodes and then it's either canceled or that's it. We need to bring back the days when we'd get 20 random episodes and 10 seasons, and even if half of them were full episodes, you'd still watch it because it was good. I don't see Netflix losing if they keep doing this because people aren't going to get invested in shows if they know it's probably going to be canceled. It's turning away viewers if anything."
Christopher Penn 1:07:03: "One of the interesting things from this project that I am hopeful the entertainment industry is looking at is understanding. Netflix rolled out its ad-based tier last fall, and many other streaming platforms were doing the same. When we ran the data about the different audience segments that tune in, we saw that the LGBTQ crowd, in general, and the Sapphic crowd, in specific, have a substantially higher economic value to any advertising platform compared to the general audience. Out of all Netflix viewers, the Sapphic audience was about $2.50 CPM higher than the $40 CPM Netflix viewer. If there's nothing else the campaign leaves behind, it's the understanding that the people in charge of making economic decisions are not using the data appropriately to look at the long-term customer lifetime value of the audience segment they're creating content for."
James Thompson: "Chris, can we make you in charge of streaming services and explain this to them, please?"
Christopher Penn: "I would be happy to have those conversations with them. But like you said, it's business. When people are making decisions inappropriately by cherry-picking the data or ignoring it, then you're not going to maximize your long-term returns. Any of these streaming companies need to take a good hard look at the communities they're serving and the long-term value they provide. The infrastructure of the Order isn't going anywhere. You have this amazing team of people, the anonymous fan who donated the warrior nun.com website, and a mailing list that is now over 1000 people. This infrastructure is an entity unto itself and what the leaders of the team choose to do with it will be very interesting. It could be helpful for supporting other campaigns or other aligned interests, even supporting legislation that improves quality and reduces inequity. It's not just a movement, it's a system and an infrastructure that can be worked with in the long-term."
James Thompson: "And I'm glad you brought that up because that is something that happens with political campaigns. You reach out to other campaigns because information is king when you're in politics trying to identify and target areas where you have potential voters. And I think that's what you're saying here. And as far as the system set up, campaigns that are looking to renew a show or get involvement from the LGBTQ community and the African community can reach out to this organization and gather input and information and get targeted a little bit more. They can have it be part of what powers a movement."
Christopher Penn: "One of the things people don't realize, if you look at the most recent data from Pew Research, is that for Generation Z, in particular, approximately one in four people do not identify as heterosexual. They are something other than that, that's 25% of the population. Once upon a time, there were no left-handed people, but as things got decriminalized and legislated, you saw that was about 10% of the population. I think in the next 10 or 15 years, as people become more accepting and culture changes, you'll see that one in three people do not see themselves as traditionally cisgender heterosexual. If you're trying to market, get elected, or build a business and you're behaving in a way that is punitive to one-third of your base, you'll have a difficult time doing business or accomplishing your goals."
James Thompson: "That is something that needs to be understood. But guys, we've been on here for an hour now. One thing I'd like to ask is who each of your favorite character is and why. So we'll start with you."
Ashley 1:13:35: "Um, my favorite character is Beatrice. It has a lot to do with the religious trauma of it all, but I think KTY did a beautiful job explaining why she doesn't love herself. It was the first time I've ever seen that acknowledged on screen and seen myself to an extent on screen, so that's why she's my favorite character."
James Thompson 1:14:08: "Awesome. Kate, how about you?"
Kate 1:14:11: "Well, Ashley stole the words right out of my mouth. We do share brain cells, so that's probably why. But I was also going to say Beatrice. For me, this is the first time I saw a character that I felt seen. I just feel really seen by her character. I've only recently worked through a lot of my internalized shame and trauma from my past, and being able to see that on screen and then realize that I've actually healed that part of myself has been really cool for me."
James Thompson 1:14:53: "Awesome. Chris, how about you? Who's your favorite character?"
Christopher Penn: "Beatrice, only because as someone who has been practicing martial arts for 33 years, seeing it done well not just in the execution of the skills but also the perspective on them was a lot of fun."
James Thompson: "Great, awesome. Kayy, how about you?"
Kayy 1:15:16: "Um, I'm going to have to say Beatrice as well, only because of the Asian lesbian with repression and martial arts background, but I really do like Ava, so it's a constant battle. Sometimes I prefer Ava, recently I've been in my Beatrice era."
James Thompson 1:15:42: "Okay. Ari, how about you?"
Ari 1:15:48: "This is a difficult pick. I relate to Beatrice on the repression and religious difficulties. I love her character and how KTY has portrayed her. She's done it beautifully and super accurately. But I also see a lot of myself in Ava, mostly in the way she tries to live in the moment and enjoy it as best she can. And the way she expresses her emotions, she's very expressive and emotional, but she can also be impulsive. I see that in myself, but I know that impulsiveness and those other aspects are done out of love for the people around her. So I see a lot of myself in Ava, but I also see a lot of myself in Beatrice. But for the sake of this, I will say I really love Ava."
James Thompson 1:17:13: "There you go. Okay, you did a great job of splitting both of those. That was one of the best explanations of both characters. Incredible. Sarah, how about you?"
Sarah 1:17:27: "Well, I mean, she's in my profile picture. But I absolutely love Mother Superion. And I just think she's so cool. And I guess the way in which I relate to her is that even though she keeps her cards close to her chest, she loves big and will do anything and everything to help the people she loves to the ends of the earth. And I feel I would do the same."
James Thompson 1:17:52: "Awesome. Pietra, how about you?"
Pietra 1:17:57: "Um, for me, I think it's a very close three-way tie between Bea, Camilla, and Mother Superion. Bea, for I think the reasons that most people relate to her, she has a very hard relationship with self-love and a hard understanding of the need to be perfect to be valued. And the conversation she had with Ava in season one was very special for me for multiple reasons, not just as a lesbian but getting the autistic diagnosis. So that scene was very important for me. And then there's Camilla, whose way of looking at the world and always finding the good is something that we could all use a little bit more of. We could all use a little bit more of loving people regardless of what they've done, believing in people and believing that at the end of the day, they're good and aim to do good. That message stays with me and why I love Camilla so much. And Mother Superion, first of all, she's absolutely cool. But also, she has a very strong relationship with wanting to protect people and wanting to do her duty. And the fear she has of eventually losing people also resonates with me a lot. It's a very thin line between protecting, being overbearing, and sending them on their way, putting them in danger. And I think Silvia portrays it so well that it's impossible not to have Mother Superion as one of your favorite characters."
James Thompson 1:19:53: "Agreed 100%. She's my favorite. So I'm right there with you on that. Adrienne, how about you?"
Adrienne 1:20:02: "So I'm gonna say Simon, because he has just the dedication that he's done to each character, no matter how big or small, and the care and handling that he took with Ava and Beatrice's characters."
James Thompson 1:20:18: "The manner in which he portrayed the relationship unfolding, is that what you're referring to?"
Adrienne 1:20:23: "Yes, but the characters in general as well."
James Thompson 1:20:27: "Okay. Great answer. Great answer. And how about you, Kelsey?"
Kelsey 1:20:36: "For me, it's definitely a toss-up between three characters. Again, like everybody else, Beatrice. I grew up in a very Irish Catholic family and went to Catholic school. I came out relatively early, and there was a lot of backlash with that, not from my family, sadly, but just from my school. So it took quite a while to fully accept myself in a way that was love instead of shame. The second one is actually Shotgun Mary. Because, you know, she resembles me a lot in the past. In the past, I wasn't as open, but I was deeply caring for people. I just didn't, you know, I wasn't the type to say, 'Oh, I love you,' to my friends. It was like, 'All right, bye,' in a joking way. But she's super, super protective, and would put herself in the line of fire to protect the people she loves, which also leads into Mother Superion, who, you know, like Sarah said, holds her cards too close to her chest but does show that she cares deeply for them. She wants to take care of them, wants them to be safe, and would die for them. That's kind of where I'm at in my life now. I show my emotions much more, but there are things I still keep close to my chest. But when it comes to the people I care about and the people I love, I would absolutely put myself in harm's way if it meant that they would be safe. If they were okay, then I'm fine with that. I'll get your room ready up in heaven or wherever I go. I'm cool with that."
James Thompson 1:22:27: "Wow, I am just in awe of all of you. You have done such amazing work. On behalf of the entire Fandom, thank you all for everything that you've done. You have done such incredible work. The organization is out of this world, the continued support and encouragement that you guys give daily is just really incredible. And thank you so much for taking the time to come together so we could thank you and also learn about you guys. You deserve so much credit and recognition for all this hard work. And I am truly appreciative. I hope everybody had a good time today. If anybody has any last words that they'd like to throw out there, please feel free to do so. Because I think we've reached the end point here, and let's go ahead."
Kate 1:23:29: "I was just going to say, I just wanted to thank you, James, for not only the space, but for everything you do. I think we talked about this when Ashley and I met with you. And just, you know, you mentioned being a cis/het guy and not wanting to take away our voices or take away anything from us. And I think Ashley and I both were telling you that you're amplifying our voices and how important that is to have someone supporting us and helping amplify that. So I just wanted to thank you for all that you're doing, not only the space, but in general for the Fandom and supporting us. So thank you."
James Thompson 1:24:07: "Thank you very much, Kate, I really appreciate that. I've been enjoying myself with all of this. This has been such a pleasant surprise for me to become a part of. I enjoy reading my timeline for the first time in a long time, so it makes me laugh. I don't always get the jokes, sometimes I feel like that's probably a conversation I should stay out of. I feel like a dad that walked in on his daughter's conversation sometimes, and that's probably not good. So I try to avoid it, but you guys are so wonderful and such a wonderful Fandom. And I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with and what plans you have. I can't wait for Season 3 to get going so that maybe some of us can all meet in Madrid, wherever it films, and then also maybe get together for a huge watch party somewhere when it premieres. So lots of big hopes out there, lots of big dreams, and I'm excited to see them fulfilled. Unless anybody has anything else they want to talk about."
Ashley 1:25:15: "I do, actually. I do hold on. I wanted to say that we are going to make a post for the Rocky Mountain Cancer Center. So if anyone else wants to donate because we basically just put this around a couple of our group chats and like 'The Order' is like who donated to this so far. We didn't want you to know about it. So we are going to post that today as well. So if anyone else is interested in making a donation, please do so."
James Thompson 1:25:48: "And I can't tell you how much that means to me, guys. You guys are getting me teary-eyed again. You're killing me here. Thank you so much. That means the world to me and will help a lot of people who are struggling with neuroendocrine tumors, which is the kind of cancer that I have. Anyway, I don't know how to segue out of that. Thank you guys. Does anybody else have anything left to say? If not, well, thank you guys so much. I will catch you. Don't forget about Chelsea's updates later today, her space that she's got going, make sure you attend. They can update you on what's going on with 'The Order' and making sure that everything is transparent. Thank you so much, everybody, and we will see you all soon. Take care."
Ari 1:26:41: "Sarah's space says it's good. Kelsey will be there though."
James Thompson 1:26:48: "It's all good. Sorry, Sarah's space. Keep an eye out for the space from Sarah to update everybody on what's going on with 'The Order'. So thank you, everybody, and have a great day. Take care. Oh, and go Chiefs! Bye bye."